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 Best QB to wear #12

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despyzer
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PostSubject: Best QB to wear #12   Tue Mar 31, 2015 2:53 pm

Who was the best QB of all-time to wear number 12? To get down to the short list, we would have to include Brady, Rodgers, Stabaugh, Namath, Stabler, Kelly, Brodie, and Bradshaw.

Before looking at any hard numbers, I would probably rank them like this:
1. Brady
2. Stabaugh
3. Bradshaw
4. Rodgers
5. Kelly
6. Stabler
7. Brodie
8. Namath

Seeing, at this point, I am basing this off raw instinct and emotion, these rankings could shift minutely from day to day.
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PostSubject: Re: Best QB to wear #12   Tue Mar 31, 2015 4:46 pm

When comparing these quarterbacks, I will primarily be looking at how they performed versus their peers in order to factor in things like rule changes and progressions in the game, though other facts and statistics will also be taken into consideration.

BRADY-
Championships: 4
Super Bowls/Championship games: 6
MVP awards: 2
1st string All-pro: 2
Pro Bowls: 10
Career AV: 6th
Seasons of top 5 AV: 4
Seasons of top 5 passer rating: 4
Seasons of top 5 passing TDs: 8
Seasons of top 5 INT %:
Seasons of top 5 yds/att.: 2
Seasons of top 5 pass comp. %: 4

STAUBACH:
Championships: 2
Super Bowls/Championship games: 4
MVP awards: 1
1st string All-pro: 0
Pro Bowls: 6
Career AV: 84th
Seasons of top 5 AV: 3
Seasons of top 5 passer rating: 5
Seasons of top 5 passing TDs: 4
Seasons of top 5 INT %: 5
Seasons of top 5 yds/att.: 6
Seasons of top 5 pass comp. %: 3

BRADSHAW
Championships: 4
Super Bowls/Championship games: 4
MVP awards: 1
1st string All-pro: 1
Pro Bowls: 3
Career AV: 76th
Seasons of top 5 AV: 1
Seasons of top 5 passer rating: 2
Seasons of top 5 passing TDs: 4
Seasons of top 5 INT %: 2
Seasons of top 5 yds/att.: 5
Seasons of top 5 pass comp. %: 1

RODGERS
Championships: 1
Super Bowls/Championship games: 1
MVP awards: 2
1st string All-pro: 2
Pro Bowls: 3
Career AV: 88th
Seasons of top 5 AV: 3
Seasons of top 5 passer rating: 6
Seasons of top 5 passing TDs: 5
Seasons of top 5 INT %: 4
Seasons of top 5 yds/att.: 6
Seasons of top 5 pass comp. %: 4

KELLY
Championships: 0
Super Bowls/Championship games: 4
MVP awards: 0
1st string All-pro: 1
Pro Bowls: 5
Career AV: 92nd
Seasons of top 5 AV: 0
Seasons of top 5 passer rating: 2
Seasons of top 5 passing TDs: 5
Seasons of top 5 INT %: 1
Seasons of top 5 yds/att.: 5
Seasons of top 5 pass comp. %: 5

STABLER
Championships: 1
Super Bowls/Championship games: 1
MVP awards: 1
1st string All-pro: 1
Pro Bowls: 4
Career AV: 181st
Seasons of top 5 AV: 0
Seasons of top 5 passer rating: 4
Seasons of top 5 passing TDs: 4
Seasons of top 5 INT %: 0
Seasons of top 5 yds/att.: 5
Seasons of top 5 pass comp. %: 9

BRODIE
Championships: 0
Super Bowls/Championship games: 0
MVP awards: 1
1st string All-pro: 1
Pro Bowls: 2
Career AV: 125th
Seasons of top 5 AV: 0
Seasons of top 5 passer rating: 3
Seasons of top 5 passing TDs: 4
Seasons of top 5 INT %: 8
Seasons of top 5 yds/att.: 3
Seasons of top 5 pass comp. %: 7

NAMATH
Championships: 1
Super Bowls/Championship games: 1
MVP awards: 2* (AFL)
1st string All-pro: 1*
Pro Bowls: 5*
Career AV: 181
Seasons of top 5 AV: 5*
Seasons of top 5 passer rating: 5*
Seasons of top 5 passing TDs: 7*
Seasons of top 5 INT %: 3*
Seasons of top 5 yds/att.: 6*
Seasons of top 5 pass comp. %: 5*


Last edited by despyzer on Tue Mar 31, 2015 5:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Best QB to wear #12   Tue Mar 31, 2015 5:09 pm

A couple things I notice here: Stabaugh perhaps receives way too much reverence for holding on to the passing efficiency rating title as long as he did. Jim Kelly seems to be no more worthy of the Hall of Fame than Joe Namath. Namath's modest numbers seem to be over-inflated by the sub-par competition he faced in the first five years years of his career. Brodie's career doesn't seem particularly impressive beyond the fact that it was difficult to get a pick off of him.

Going forward, I am going to eliminate Kelly, Namath, and Brodie from the conversation. Let's look at those same stats parsed in a different manner:

CHAMPIONSHIPS
Brady, Bradshaw: 4
Staubach; 2
Stabler, Rodgers; 1

SUPER BOWLS
Brady: 6
Bradshaw, Staubach: 4
Stabler, Rodgers: 1

MVP AWARDS
Brady, Rodgers: 2
Bradshaw, Staubach, Stabler: 1

1ST-STRING ALL-PRO
Brady, Rodgers: 2
Bradshaw, Stabler: 1
Staubach: 0

PRO BOWLS
Brady: 10
Staubach: 6
Stabler: 4
Bradshaw, Rodgers: 3

CAREER AV:
Brady: 10th
Bradshaw: 76th
Staubach: 84th
Rodgers: 88th
Stabler: 181st

SEASONS OF TOP 5 AV
Brady: 4
Staubach, Rodgers: 3
Bradshaw: 1
Stabler: 0

SEASONS OF TOP 5 PASSER RATING:
Staubach, Rodgers: 5
Brady, Stabler: 4
Bradshaw: 2

SEASONS OF TOP 5 PASSING TDS:
Brady: 8
Rodgers: 5
Staubach, Bradshaw, Stabler: 4

SEASONS OF TOP 5 INT%:
Brady, Staubach: 5
Rodgers: 4
Bradshaw: 2
Stabler: 0

SEASONS OF TOP 5 YDS/ATT:
Staubach, Bradshaw: 6
Rodgers, Stabler: 5
Brady: 2

SEASONS OF TOP 5 PASS COMP. %:
Stabler: 9
Brady, Rodgers: 4
Staubach: 3
Bradshaw: 1
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PostSubject: Re: Best QB to wear #12   Tue Mar 31, 2015 5:17 pm

I did not cherry-pick these categories. I selected them because I think they are some of the most meaningful stats for measuring a quarterback, especially of those who are being considered among the all-time best. Of these twelve categories, Brady is atop or tied atop nine of them. He is at the bottom of only one of them. I'd definitely be open to considering other stats or hearing arguments as to why one of these other men should be considered above Brady.
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PostSubject: Re: Best QB to wear #12   Tue Mar 31, 2015 5:23 pm

I think my revised ranking would go:

1. Brady
2. Staubach
3. Rodgers
4. Bradshaw
5. Stabler
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PostSubject: Your work factoring in my adjustments   Tue Mar 31, 2015 7:15 pm

Plain and simple being a qB is way safer and way easier. During the majority of the old guys years a CB could knock a wr down at the line of scrimmage, lineman could not extend their arms to the side in any way, and QB's could be hit. The last years have been especially pathetic. I wanted to make it more but I am talking Brady 25% and Rodgers 33% based on the respective years they played. Giving 5 for first and 1 point for last here are there point totals.

Stabaugh 48.5
Brady 43
Stabler 31
Bradshaw 29
Rodgers 25.5

This conveys the idea that in qB skill Roger was the best ever and that's a sound argument, also that if Rodgers keeps it up he will be top 3 easily,but the mystique of winning it all adjusted by losses and gives me these numbers 5 per win (minimum) going up by 5 each time and down by 5 for each loss. example Brady 5 10 15 (3 losses) makes the 4th one worth 5

Bradshaw 79
Brady 78
Stabaugh 58.5
Stabler 36
Rodgers 30.5
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PostSubject: Brady   Tue Mar 31, 2015 7:20 pm

But if the era is not a factor Brady is the best, and it is ok if someone does not want to consider the era.
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PostSubject: Re: Best QB to wear #12   Tue Mar 31, 2015 8:28 pm

I am guessing you didn't see that I already adjusted for era. Even with that adjustment, Brady pretty much blew away the rest of the field.
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PostSubject: Re: Best QB to wear #12   Tue Mar 31, 2015 8:32 pm

One thing I didn't adjust for is championships. There are more teams now and rule changes have increased parity since the days of Staubach and Bradshaw, making his 4 titles even more impressive. Also, Bradshaw was literally surrounded by future Hall of Famers. How many has Brady played alongside?
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PostSubject: Re: Best QB to wear #12   Tue Mar 31, 2015 8:37 pm

And what is up with your crazy SB equation? It suggests that not making it to the Super Bowl is considerably better than making it but not winning. Brady has only lost two SBs, not three.
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PostSubject: Re: Best QB to wear #12   Tue Mar 31, 2015 8:40 pm

You realize that even in your pursuit to give the win to Anybody-but-Brady that you still only eked out a single point higher for Bradshaw?
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PostSubject: Re: Best QB to wear #12   Wed Apr 01, 2015 4:24 am

Speaking of adjusting for eras, it would also be slightly more difficult to place in the top five of a category today when there are more players to compete with. Back in the 70's, most top athletes were playing baseball instead of pursuing the NFL, so it could easily be argued that the level of competition is considerably better today too.
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